Late July - Cardiff Bay

This is just an initial post to create this event which was discussed at the AGM.

Full details will posted in this thread by the organiser soon.

If you want to declare your interest in this event you can go ahead now and post here.

31 Comments

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

We would be interested in this one - able to start 21st July or ideally 22nd, and then free so far. (Have cousins up the Western Cleddau)

Liz

Tenacity 19

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

Hi Guys,

I have given Liz an outline of a provisional itinery although this will be tide and weather dependant.

The Bristol Channels tides are strong so full fuel tanks and spares stowed below are a good idea. I always have two red petrol tanks and two large Jerry cans of fuel on board and two anchors as a minimum (one used as a kedge off the rear of the boat).

I am at the Club this weekend and will firm up details for the event. The Commodore has indicated parking trailers and cars will be at owners own risk but the event dates would have to be approved by the clubs committee to avoid clashes with other events as its a busy members club.

Provisionally I was thinking 22nd July 2014 until 31st July / 1st August 2014 as I have to be back in Worcester on 1st.

i will give a further updates after the weekend.

Richard Greenway (Lonach 26x)

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay


I may be misreading your post but petrol stored below is never a good idea. Petrol (and Gas) should be secured in locations where fumes will vent overboard and away from sources of ignition (heat and electrical devices).

I've been viewing various boats recently (still hunting) and I am alarmed by the standards of many of the fuel and gas installations.

Regards

Dave.

Dave Newton Sailbadthesinner

rick.jones's picture

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

Dave is quite correct about safe storage of flammable fuels. After I bought my 26X (6+ years ago), I discovered that the previous owner had installed Calor gas simply by chucking a cylinder in the bilge - aarrrgh :shock: That was very quickly removed, then relocated to under the stern cockpit seat.

Also remember that the amount of fuel you need to carry is determined by your engine's consumption, and this varies wildly between different engine models. My old smelly Suzuki 55HP 2-stroke used between 6-10 ltr/hr, and old Tohatsu 2-strokes are similar if not worse. I now have a Tohatsu EFI 2-stroke and that uses 2 ltr/hr pretty consistently. 4-strokes such as Yamahas should turn in similar figures.

I have dual 25 ltr tanks, which thus gives me 24 hrs on engine from full. On my old engine I could run out in 5 hrs, which I came to realise was quite a constraint. From a safety viewpoint you should always be able to reach the nearest port on engine alone, so I understand Richard's advice if you have a thirsty engine. But try to stow the jerry cans outside the cabin if you can!

Richard - I'm hoping I can join this event, still a few personal things to be worked out for late July though.

Rick Jones (Treasurer) 1994 Mac 19 "White Lightning", Isle of Wight

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

Dave & Others,

All good advice but a little warning for those of you used to sailing southern shores - not many refueling points on Bristol Channel.
Stick the Jerrys in the heads for containment, drill a hole in the door or side panel. Keep a fire extinguisher just inside the companionway door.
Running out of fuel in the Bristol Channel is more of a hazard.........
Danger is not all ports can be accessed and the state of tide my prevent you getting in to a safe Haven.
You have been warned.
Generally Cardiff, Portishead and Swansea have good access all states of tides and Ilfracombe / Wachet good outer harbours whilst Milford Haven and Pembroke are sheltered from Atlantic Waves with good anchorages.
I wasn't suggesting taking any safety risk but re-fueling is hazardous as Bristol Channels tidal range is extreme up to 5.3m and the tidal streams are the fastest in UK and any engine use in this stretch of water given tidal stream can be three times what i have experience elsewhere in the UK.
I have motored at 18knots to make 1 knot headway for instance so normal rules of consumption dont apply.

I have been sailing on the Bristol Channel since 2007 both from Somerset (Combwich on the River Parret) Cardiff Bay & have visited lots of port but not all.
Hope this clarifies my advice but certainly 100 litres on board is the minimum.

rick.jones's picture

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

Given that the tides are well known in advance, could I suggest that Richard puts together an itinerary that generally goes with the tide rather than against it. My guess is that using a favourable tide in that area is more important than a favourable wind. In less tidal waters it's tempting to wait to see what the wind is doing, then pick a route and destination to give an optimum point of sail, but it sounds to me that it's better in the channel to stick with the tide, and if the wind direction is kindly use it, otherwise motor!

Looking at my tide app for Ilfracombe, 22 July is neaps (low/high 9:05/15:32), progressing to springs a week later (high/low 8:50/14:41) - does that help?

Rick

Rick Jones (Treasurer) 1994 Mac 19 "White Lightning", Isle of Wight

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

If it all goes wrong:
Don't expect to claim on your insurance, they will probably throw the Petrolium Spirit Regulations in your face and refuse to pay. Yes the regs. do apply to boats and do apply for non work activities.
That is once you get out of hospital from the burns you may suffer, assuming you don't drown 'cos you are going to have to 'step outside' if your boats ablaze. You needn't think you stand much chance of fighting a petrol fire with a typical portable fire extinguisher in the confines of a boat.
Fuel cans frequently vent excess pressure that builds up on a hot day as the fuel tries to evaporate. Add any electrical switch and you have a flash fire that has to be experienced to be believed. In a confined space you may not even get the chance to throw yourself overboard!

Keep them on deck please.

Dave MIFireE

Dave Newton Sailbadthesinner

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

Well thats partly why I go to sea to get away from the beuarocratic red tape thats a load of bollocks in most instances.
Keep the boat well vented in the first place simple answer.
Having sailed my MAC on 20ft plus waves on Bristol Channel believe me even the cans in the lockers can get thrown about, cans above deck could kill - hanking them down is also a real issue.
Given the Macs poor stowage anyway maybe someone can come up with a simple modification to put in either additional lockers under cockpit seats.
A vent in the heads not a bad idea anyway.
Agree though if marine equipment wasn't such a rip off, re costs wise, fitting a sealed fuel tank with outside vent would be preferable.
Basically two 25l tanks will not suffice - do what you want with them I am happy with my arrangement but take your point.

I also single hand on the Bristol Channel so maybe I am just a lunatic!

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

Actually I consider myself to be an accomplished sailor having sailed in the med, south coast of england, france and spain (costa's), greek islands and menorca / majorca to name a few but not on a Mac but other vessels, mainly Bavaria 36 and an old vessel which I didnt know the make as wasn't interested when I was younger..........it was girls then!
Actually was taught by a merchant naval officer in Barecelona and Villenova de Caen whilst I studied at Cerdanyola University.
New regulations are good but the boats design hasn't accomodated the fact that not enough stowage on the 26x in the cockpit / above deck is provided.
The boat has its limitations without radical surgery and lashing cans on decks is not my preference in heavy seas.
Maybe a larger 50L fuel tank could be designed that stows under the entire cockpit locker to avoid this issue altogether.

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

Seriously a 50l can would be a great introduction that fitted into the current lockers to avoid concerns raised which are with merit.
Maybe the original designers of the boat are to blame!
Lashing Jerry cans in a cockpit already constrained isn't the answer either as they are likley to cause a hazard too........the lockers just aren't big enough for four fuel tanks?

Well thanks for the advice - only be sailing 27 years since I was at Villa nova de Caen, Barcelona at University where I stayeed and was taught by an ex merchant naval officer who survived supply ship runs between Gibraltor to Malta dodging the Stukas dodging their attentions.

Rick neaps not a problem but will reduce options for mooring up as inner harbour Ilfracombe and most north Devon Somerset ports will be out. Cardiff
all states of tides so is Portishead. Swansea, Pembroke, Milford Haven are all good choices. Anchorages at Lundy, Saundersfoot, Tenby, Dale, Sandy Haven, St. Brides Haven (only at high tide conditions permitting), Broad Haven, Solva Creek but it is a fair exposed run around Strumble Head to Fishguard.

Like the film 'a bridge to far' it may be 'a port too far'! but if the weathers fair and winds in the right direction it would be a fab experience avoiding the ferries to Rosslare coming out of Fishguard Harbour.

rick.jones's picture

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

Richard - what engine do you have, and how many hours do you reckon you get from your 100 lts fuel?

Rick

Rick Jones (Treasurer) 1994 Mac 19 "White Lightning", Isle of Wight

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

Anyone know of a 50L fuel tank that would fit in each locker. Also would love to mod cockpit to have a locker for fenders, ties, anchors, sails and wet gear generally
could a preformed mould be made? Would significant improve the sailing experience and yes it would be safer!

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

Update after Considering tidal stream and state of tide for proposed dates of Event in Cardiff / Bristool Channel (after discussion with Rick Jones). All dates shown are in July 2014 except where stated:
Short passage plan:
FRI/SAT 25/26th - Arrival & Launch
SUNDAY 27th - Gentle sail around the bay and passage through barrage (optional), and maybe a trip out to Flat Holm and back if weather fair
MONDAY 28th - Early Start 0645 hours to catch tide for sail to Ilfracombe
Tuesday 29th - Explore Ifracombe during morning, in afternoon mak a short passage to Appledore to anchor / beach at Instow (overnight stay) in pictursque
inlet.
Wednesday 30th - Sail to Lundy Isle for lunch then onto Saundersfoot or Swansea.
Thursday 31st - Return to Cardiff Bay via barrage arriving early evening due to tides.
Friday 1st August - Pull Out, or free time & pull out over the weekend - possible passage upstream.

Alternative is that those wanting a second week or longer passage could extend passage from Lundy to Milford Haven and do a couple of day cruising around Pembroke, Solva Creek etc.

My ambition to sail to Fishguard might just be a little ambitious but I will have a yachtmaster with me (Brain Pilcher, Aquila an Evolution 26 who was moored at Exmouth for several years before becoming a fellow Cardiff Member).

A different option would be to trailer to Fishguard and Launch there and make short passages back to Cardiff and recover trailer/cars by catching the train from Cardiff that goes to Swansea, Carmarthen, Haverfordwest, St. Davids and Fishguard.

What do people think?

Pilot book for the event is 'Bristol Channel and Severn Cruising Guide' by Peter Cumberlidge, Imray 2008, ISBN 978-085288979-4 which I have bought a copy for use on the event. Only £26.00 (bargain).

rick.jones's picture

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

Thanks Richard

I'd just like to point out a typo: dates are July, not June!

It strikes me a one-way Fishguard trip could be done starting from Cardiff, returning by train to pick up trailers. This would mean everyone starting at Cardiff regardless, if there is a consensus for Fishguard then off we go.

If the weather is unfriendly, and/or for those not so keen on making longer passages, there is plenty of scope for day sailing around Cardiff bay, and the local waters outside the barrage. I can envisage the rally dividing into two contingents - those following Richard's suggested plan, and those preferring a more gentle time in the Cardiff locality. Nothing wrong with that!

It's a venue to suit all tastes and abilities, so it would be great to see lots of members taking part.

Please let us know as soon as possible if you're at all interested, even if only provisionally.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Rick Jones (Treasurer) 1994 Mac 19 "White Lightning", Isle of Wight

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

Rick - oops edited it.

Fishguard is an aspiration for me due to my own family history (mother's birthplace and where I spent some of my childhood holidays visiting relatives and my grandfather (Robert Hugh Venables) who worked on the docks all his life).
If the weather is foul wouldn't even consider it! but if its glorius weather could be spectacular scenery etc..........

Certainly the train back to Cardiff to collect trailers is another option worth considering.

Diolch

Richard Greenway

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

We are provisionally interested! Not sure about getting all the way to/from Fishguard. We have relatives on the river bank up the Western Cleddau so would also want to visit them before/after/during ...

Liz Dave Cerian and
Tenacity

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

Hi,

We should be in the Tenby / Saundersfoot area with Blue Babe on 30th July - should you decide to go that far west we'd love to catch up with you all. Both Tenby and Saundersfoot dry, so have a tidal gateway which can add further complications to passage planning :/ Either way we'll watch this thread and see if its possible to join you at all.

Daryl & Yvonne

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

Hi All,

After my de-masting (8th June 2014) in a squal due the forestay pin shearing I would recommend every in MOA checks their pins for any signs of fatigue.
Fortunately this has been covered by insurance as a failure under load which is considered a peril of the sea.
Was a different experience watch the boat go to port and the foresail / genoa to starboard.
Will provide Liz with some copy when I get time to write a report for magazine.
Fortunately new mast has been procured and fitted this week - Andy Freemantle at Freemantle Yacht Riggers is an amazing bloke (very knowledgeable and efficient). Thanks to Z spars for getting mast ordered in time for Event later this month and for Insurers (Yachtline) who after considering the claim made a fair decision (would recommend them to anyone as they have treated me well given my recent experiences).

Anyway noted Tenby / Saundersfoot meet up although that about when Molly has to go home if she comes after the 8th June fiasco..........

Another note - fortunately I replaced forestay and standing rigging after Torquay 2010 event after witnessing Roly's snapped cable. Rigging after 10 years old invalidates your insurance apparently (unless renewed) so thought I would mention to anyone with a boat old enough to come into that category.............

Richard Greenway (Lonach 26x)

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

I insure with SAGA because I am old enough and there is no time or age limitation on rigging or anything else. They do expect you to regularly check and maintain rigging etc which is common sense and good seamanship.
Good Sailing
Simon
Sowenna (26M)

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

Hi All,

Mast replaced and sail slugged, commissioning all on Lonach this weekend so happy days........Freemantle Rigger and Severn Sails are brilliant guys and have a new ZSpars mast adapted for raising and lowering.

Can we have a head count for those persons interested so I can let CYC Commodore and Harbour Master know approx. numbers using club parking / facilities.

Who is arriving on Friday and what time if so? (Remembering I still have to work for a living).
Who is arriving on Saturday and what time if so?
Any later arrivals?

The CYC have stipulated I need to be present to open the controlled access gate to those MOA owners attending the event and starting form here.

Top tip, if arriving via M4 get off at Junction 33 as its far easier than negotiating the City streets and follow A4232 into the Bay (signed). Go over the Grangetown Link bridge and take the exit before the tunnel (1st exit over the bridge) turning at the traffic island into Dudley Street (2nd right) which leads onto Windsor Esplanade. The club is at the end of this road with access via controlled gates so you will have to give me a call to get in (Mobile 07808 471050).

Hope as many member as possible will turn up for this event especially if the weathers good!

Cheers drive / trailer safely,

Richard (Lonach 26x)

rick.jones's picture

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

Hi Richard

I'm planning to be there, with "White Lightning", a Mac 19 that I've just bought from member Mark Stevenson. Just finished a 4-day marathon at Calshot sorting it, packing it up, and putting it on a 2nd-hand trailer I bought on eBay (which also needed sorting and adjusting). The original trailer was rusting severely, definitely not road legal, and probably wouldn't have made it to Cardiff in one piece anyway!

Hopefully Liz & Dave can make it, and we'll have a mini-squadron of 19s!

I'll be accompanied by my partner Glenis, and we should arrive by lunchtime Saturday.

This will be my first outing with a 19, so a lot of learning to do, which means I may well not want to commit to long passages, especially if the sea & weather is anything other than very benign. I'm thinking particularly Cardiff-Ilfracombe, which looks best part of 50 miles. I may well be content to potter around the bay and local area, even if others want to do the Grand Tour. So if anyone else thinking of coming prefers a less adventurous week, you won't be alone!

Looking forward to the week anyway, however it turns out. Hope lots of members can take part.

Cheers

Rick Jones (Treasurer) 1994 Mac 19 "White Lightning", Isle of Wight

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

Hi Richard

Tenacity will be there as well I hope. We are planning to come down on the Friday - probably arrive about 5-ish. If no-one else coming on the Friday and it's inconvenient - we could easily park up and do the caravan thing and reach wherever it is we are going on the Saturday morning.

Looking forward to seeing another 19 - I don't thing I've ever seen another one in the flesh!!

Liz

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

Hi we are going to Cardiff marina on Saturday won't go to Fishguard but would like to go to Swansea hope we meet up will be in touch x Jill wwassell

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

Hiya all,

I will be in Cardiff on Friday 2,00pm onwards to sort out my vessel with sails to fit and get the boat ready for short passages and/or journeys around the bay
assuming all goes to plan.

It looks like Fishguard will be another event at a later date and that shorter passages given Ricks and my getting used to new gear will be order of the day.

Swansea isn't too far distant and is a good haven.

I look forward to seeing you all at the club. Parking up on the right on entering the site through the main gates is where the club would prefer vessels/trailer and vehicles to use for the duration of the event. Usually the club likes a small donation as a gesture of goodwill for hosting the event but we can discuss twhats appropriate on arrival - Rick maybe the £50 allocated by MOA could go towards this gesture?

Richard (Lonach 26x)

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

Could you give us a few more details about where we're launching and how to get there?? (apart from Cardiff obviously)

Liz

rick.jones's picture

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

Could you give us a few more details about where we're launching and how to get there?? (apart from Cardiff obviously)

Hi Liz

The venue is Cardiff Yacht Club (not to be confused with Cardiff Bay Yacht Club!). Search in Google Maps and it'll show you the exact spot. See Richard's post above re. best route esp. with a trailer.

Also note that he will need to let you into the gate, so phone when you're getting close!

See you there.

Rick Jones (Treasurer) 1994 Mac 19 "White Lightning", Isle of Wight

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

Wishing you all the very best for this event. Wish we could be there.
Roly

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

Address & Directions to The Cardiff Yacht Club, Windsor Esplanade Butetown, Cardiff, CF10 5BG, Wales (see http://www.cardiffyachtclub.co.uk/howtofindcardiff.html - how to find us).

Top tip, if arriving via M4 get off at Junction 33 as its far easier than negotiating the City streets and follow A4232 into the Bay (signed). Go over the Grangetown Link bridge and take the exit before the tunnel (1st exit over the bridge) turning at the traffic island into Dudley Street (2nd right) which leads onto Windsor Esplanade. The club is at the end of this road with access via controlled gates so you will have to give me a call to get in (Mobile 07808 471050).

Will be there from 3pm onwards to welcome MOA members.

Note: On Monday afternoon I will need to leave the party to take Molly home and will come back for the rest of the event!

Richard (Lonach 26x)

Re: Late July - Cardiff Bay

Hi Richard

we are hoping to get there friday pm say around 7oclock

I still have some things to do on the boat so hope that goes ok I have found my radio cable up the mast was severed at the base so have replaced it.

see you there