Hi all, hopefully some of you knowledgeable owners can help me out. I'm not yet an owner but intend to get an M or X. I'm in the fortunate position of having the grand union canal at the bottom of my garden. Space is somewhat limited but I am installing a boat ramp / boat house. At the moment it's 3m wide and slopes down 1ft from the garden to the water and then a further 2ft under the water at a gradient of 1 in 4. So questions...3m should be plenty wide enough as the trailer is about 2.4m wide right? 2ft should be plenty of depth given the steep gradient to launch (based on videos I've seen)? But is the gradient too steep for a 4x4 without low ratio (I currently have a Honda CRv)? Or even with? I could make the gradient less but would reduce wet area inside the boat house for my dinghy and Canadian which I intend to keep on the ramp.
Finally I intend to put a roof over the ramp to use as a boat house when not using as a ramp. What is the height of the highest point at the back when on the trailer? What about the highest point anywhere along the length? Does anyone know if there's a scale drawing of the side aspect while on the trailer somewhere? I have considered a couple of options from a low roof that opens to a high roof that opens and I'm still in planning stage of that aspect...
Thanks for your help and advice.
Cheers
Andy
Hi Andy
Welcome to the forum - interesting proposition you have there, I've never heard of anyone with a Mac and a private slipway!
3m wide is going to be pretty tight. It depends on whether that's the total width available (e.g. between walls), or the width of the concrete but more free air (e.g. grass bank) either side. If 3m is the absolute width it gives you about 1 ft each side, and you'll have to be very skilled at reversing a trailer to get it down that without hitting the sides. On the other hand you have a better chance of keeping the wheels on 3m of concrete if you're not constrained by the overhang of the hull.
The ramp I use at my harbour is pretty steep, though I'm not sure what it is in numbers. To get the bow bunk far enough into the water to get my X to float off, I have to put the rear wheels of the car well into the water. At a guess, the trailer wheels are 8m back from the water's edge. They are also less than 1.5m below the surface, so the gradient is shallower than 1:4, probably nearer 1:6. My ramp is strange, having a dual gradient, with the upper bit considerably steeper. This part might be as much as 1:4, and is quite tough to pull a 26X up. I used to use a Kia Sorrento, which is a heavy, very good tow car with low ratio. I currently have a 3.3 tonne Transit RWD, no low ratio, and I can just manage but I have to take a run at the steep bit!
I'd have thought a CRv is a bit light to tow a 26X on the flat, let alone up a ramp. Having had a quick look at towing capacities, it seems to depend massively on which version you have - different models are rated from 680kg to over 2 tonnes! However, without low ratio you stand no chance of pulling one up the kind of gradient you're considering. Maybe at 1:6 you could get away with it.
I don't know how much space you have in total, but based on my ruminations above I think you're looking at a ramp extending 30 ft or so out under water, with a gradient of about 1:6, definitely no steeper than 1:5. How much space does that leave you on land? To park boat and car on the dry needs around 50 ft, so it's a total of at least 80 ft of concrete. And you might be looking at wider than 10 ft too!
Of course one option to consider which avoids all the car problems is to install a fixed winch. You can then haul the trailer out running on its jockey wheel, and the reverse to launch. You could probably manage with your 3m width, and a steeper ramp if the winch is powerful enough. Remember that when hauling a Mac out, you've got the added weight of the water ballast until it drains. A 26X or M with equipment, trailer and ballast can easily weigh over 2.5 tonnes. I'd allow for 3 tonnes when calculating winch load.
Finally, the highest point of the boat depends on whether you've got the mast attached (in its lowered position of course), or completely removed. I don't have any figures to hand, maybe someone else can chime in on that one?
Hope that all helps.
Rick Jones (Treasurer), former 26X & 19 owner, Isle of Wight
Thanks Rick, I'm still digesting all your helpful comments! I had also wondered about a winch and/or a front mounted tow bar. It may be it proves impractical to manoeuvre such a large trailer down my garden and then down the ramp but it's still of use for the rest of my "fleet". It would give extra flexibility to get the boat in and out if it can be used though...
Unfortunatley without sacrificing a pear tree I'm constrained to the 3m...though fortunately I'm handier than most at reversing a trailer and with more practice I'm sure I will get better. My dad suggested that putting guides to funnel and guide the trailer wheels given the known width might be effective (kind of like car washes do for cars). There are hard sides on the ramp and as mentioned I hope to enclose the whole thing in walls and a roof so I accept it will be a bit like threading a needle!
I suppose a winch for the ramp and one of those crawler things they move caravans with for the approach might be an option but there comes a point where I may as well just juggle cars etc to use a public ramp I guess. 1:6 would just be doable I think in the space I've got available.
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/honda/cr-v/estat...
So 1500KG - pretty borderline right...perhaps I'll need to reckon on an upgrade of car too :roll:
http://www.macgregor26.com/launching/launching.htm
This is saying waterline is 27" off the ground when on trailer...and that rear wheels of car usually at the waterline to launch using the outboard to power on/off the trailer.
Oh, and I'm reckoning on completely removing the mast if launching through the boat house - one less thing to worry about and keeping the overall size down...
Cheers
Andy
Yep, it will be a tight squeeze, even for an expert reverser. You'll have to try it and see. My first thought, like Ricks, was some kind of winch, they aren't too expensive and can either be 12v battery operated or I suspect, plugged into a mains socket. Have a look at 'Superwinch', the importers are at Tavistock. We've got one in the back of our pick-up, [for my wifes pony trap] and it works a treat, especially with a wanderlead.
Paul
[Ex 'Crackerjack' - 26M]
I've actually got a mains powered winch rated up to 1000KG iirc...would have to do some sums / find a calculator to see if that would be sufficient to drag a 1200 boat + 500 water + 120 fuel + 20 water + 250 trailer + 100 say of extra kit...2190KG...my gut feeling is that it would probably do it.
In ideal conditions, the pull on the winch is the weight of the load divided by the gradient. So e.g. 2,000 kg on a 1:5 ramp needs a pull of 400 kg. However, you've got to add an allowance for friction as well as the extra needed to start the thing moving. In your case you've got a factor of over 2:1, which should be ample.
Guide tracks for the wheels (including the jockey wheel if winching) are definitely a good idea.
Rick Jones (Treasurer), former 26X & 19 owner, Isle of Wight
Thanks, by the power of Google I've determined that the stated towing weight of cars is based on a 1:8 gradient. This means to tow 2200KG up a 1:4 incline need a vehicle rated for towing 2200+2200/8=2200+275=2475KG with ballast. I had been considering selling my XKR and CRv and getting a single more practical car anyway so perhaps that's the way to go...the BMW X5, Merc 320ML, and Audi Q7 all have towing ratings over 3000KG and would meet my size, practicality and budget requirements...though I will still prob need to winch on my ramp due to space considerations...or at very least a front mounted hitch.
Towing weights are actually a bit of a minefield, esp. as there's more than one way to define it. There's the max. weight the vehicle can physically move, which is where the 1:8 gradient comes in, then there's the maximum weight you can legally tow on the road, which is not necessarily the same.
I'm not convinced that all manufacturers quote the same thing (the gradient is a fairly arbitrary measure), so it can actually be quite hard to compare. The maximum legal weight is also not that simple, as it's defined by the MGTW (maximum gross train weight), being the maximum allowable total weight of car + trailer. So if you load up the car, it reduces the maximum weight of the trailer. You'll also find several places on the web where it is claimed that the maximum legal towing weight is the MGTW - MGVW (max. gross vehicle weight, the max. you can legally load the car to). While it's true that a trailer within this weight will never be too heavy, it's not actually the maximum, because that depends on the actual gross vehicle weight when towing. Still with me? :-) However, if a manufacturer specifies a max. recommended towing weight, then you should not exceed that even if you're within the MGTW. They have to specify MGTW by law, but explicit max trailer weight is optional.
Another figure that's often overlooked is the nose weight. That's the down force on the towball, which should be around 5% of the trailer weight (caravanners recommend 7%, but that's a different dynamic). It means for a loaded Mac (assume 2T on the trailer) that's at least 100 kg. Vehicle manufacturers have to specify max. nose weight as well as MGTW (although it can be hard to find the figure), and you'd be surprised how low some are. It's why I chose a Kia Sorento 6 years ago, as the only other one that gave over 100kg nose weight was a Discovery, which cost twice as much! Don't ignore the Sorento, it's a surprisingly capable car at a very good price.
Before towing on the road you should check the trailer's nose weight. Forget expensive nose-weight gauges, get one of Tesco's cheapest bathroom scales. Then cut a bit of 2x2-ish timber to go from the hitch to the scales sitting on the ground beneath, and wind up the jockey wheel so the weight of the hitch is supported by the scales. You can then shift stuff around inside the boat to get the weight in the right region.
You also have to remember that the nose weight contributes to the gross vehicle weight, but not to the gross train weight - fun, isn't it?
Rick Jones (Treasurer), former 26X & 19 owner, Isle of Wight
Aye, fun indeed, thanks for the info and tips. Will save some thinking time later on :)
I was going from this:
In most cases, the towing limit of your car will be significantly higher than its kerbweight, so you can use the kerbweight to calculate the best caravan match. However , in some modern vehicles – especially highly-optimised, fuel-efficient ones – the towing limit is lower than the kerbweight. In the words of the European regulation, a car’s towing limit is the maximum weight at which: “The motor vehicle towing a trailer must be able to start the vehicle combination – laden to its maximum mass – five times on an uphill gradient of at least 12 per cent within five minutes.”
http://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/helpandadvice/technicalhelp/t...
I'd use a winch, I only have a fwd drive car so use a warrior 2000kg braked one off the back of my tow ball which has been perfect. I also fitted a wireless remote control. Ive pulled it out of some decrepit and/or slimy slips, even a 4*4 would struggle, plus useful for shallow slips.
Note, buy a snatch block, this will double the load if need be, it will also lessen the load on the motor by virtue of less turns on the drum, and remember the rated pull is for the the first wind on the drum. Have a vid somewhere..