26M - a problem!

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john.richardson
26M - a problem!

'Sonny' will just not come about on either tack. Anyone have any likely reasons. My feeling is that could be Keel or steering but I would welcome any comments.

Anyone know what the available options are for keel and rudder repair or replacement?

Regards, John Richardson 'Sonny' 26M

dave.newton
Re: 26M - a problem!


John, can you describe what she does?
Which sail luffs first?
Do they luff from the head down, clew up or uniformly?
Does she lose all way?
Does she return herself to the original tack or sit in irons?
Is it equally bad on port and stbd tack?
Is it with the dagger board and rudders fully down?
Better or worse in strong winds?

Regards
Dave.

Dave Newton Sailbadthesinner

john.richardson
Re: 26M - a problem!

Hi Dave,

Thanks for reply.

Both sails seem to shiver simultaneously, she loses way and drifts back to original tack. I'm unsure re head or clew - rudders and keel fully down on all tests. Wind speed doesn't seem make any difference although anything more than F5 and I'm in the pub!

regards,

John 'Sonny'26M

roly.simpson
Re: 26M - a problem!

Hi john. Have you lengthened your forestay? It is conceivable that if the mast was rakedback too far it might lead to rounding up into wind and hence hard to get it through the wind. Also have you checked that dagger board is intact? Not a silly question. I once found mine broken off.
PS.......impressed that you are out sailing this early!
Roly

john.richardson
Re: 26M - a problem!

Hi Roly,

Thanks for reply.

No, I haven't lengthened my forestay but the daggerboard may well be damaged. I'll see when she gets lifted out next month.
Don't be too impressed - I haven't been out since last year! I'm just getting round to these issues before the season starts, thats all!

Regards,

John

colin.winter
Re: 26M - a problem!

Dear John

If you are sailing at sea with a moderate swell but relatively little wind this can be a common problem with small lightweight boats. You start to go about then as you climb a wave the boat slows down so much it stops the boat in its tracks. Building up more speed before going about can help or back the jib to bring the boat around.

dave.newton
Re: 26M - a problem!

I have normally found failed tacks are more of an issue in light airs.
No disrespect intended but it is possible the problem stems from technique not the boat.
This may be teaching grandmother... but:

A technique that helps is to bear away briefly before turning into the tack. This can build a little more speed but crucially gives more yaw momentum to the turn before the wind is lost. This can be enough to carry you through the tack. Conversely if you simply bear up harder and harder slowly you will lose all way before you can make the tack and may well fall back to the same tack as the boat finds its own equilibrium again. On a dingy shifting the crew weight early can also help force through a tack quicker due to the change of shape of the wetted area but on a Mac it will make little difference. Backing the jib (holding it sheeted on the current tack until the wind fills it again) can help turn the boat quicker but at the cost of greater loss of way.
Too much rudder can be as much of a problem as being too slow and gentle. If the helm is turned too hard it can kill a lot of way from drag before it begins to impart momentum to the turn.

Macs are not noted for pointing all that close to wind (a consequence of the planning hull shape). Consequently they have to tack through a greater angle than most high performance modern yachts.
Say the boat is on a port tack, the hull is healing to starboard such that the shape of the wetted surface is centred to the right of the keel. As she comes into wind she will roll upright and at the same time pitch up due to the loss of forward forces from the sails, the addition of drag forces from them flogging and from the increased drag of the rudders. This results in a bow up motion putting the centre of buoyancy well behind the keel.
As the hull comes upright it moves the centre line of the wetted displacement inline with the keel. This nullifies the horizontal lift from the keel removing the horizontal force of the keel to port. The combination of the loss of this force with the shift in the effective buoyancy results in a yaw moment clockwise, i.e. to starboard which is against the tack.
This is what sends you straight back where you started so you need enough yaw momentum to overcome this before the boat comes upright and you need to keep enough way so that the keel will
keep producing some force to help.

One thought is the rotating mast on an M, does yours move freely? The leading edge and mast profile have a huge effect on the aerodynamics of the main and this could be a factor.

The best advice is just get out there and play, try turning the helm more and less, try bearing away first, try backing the jib. Then try the same on someone else's Mac and see if it is any better or worse.
The good part is you have the water all to yourself at this time of year!

Dave

Dave Newton Sailbadthesinner

john.richardson
Re: 26M - a problem!

Thanks Dave,

This issue is new - for 8 or so years it's not been a problem. It began on the Solent rally last year and I've been playing with it ever since. I have had, however, a long term issue with the rotating mast - in short it doesn't! Once it rotates it stays where it is until I get mad with it and physically twist it manually. This problem has not affected coming about in the past, but may be a contributing factor now, perhaps combined with other issues.

Once again thanks for your and everyone elses contribution.

John Richardson 'Sonny' 26M

dave.newton
Re: 26M - a problem!


Sorry John, I was assuming it might be you not the boat but as you know it's a new problem and if you haven't changed the rig I can only guess it is hydrodynamic and your dagger board and rudders must be the prime suspects.
Providing the hull is reasonably free of fouling the only other contributor would be the outboard adding drag if you have it down at the time.

Regards
Dave.

Dave Newton Sailbadthesinner

john.richardson
Re: 26M - a problem!

Sonny is now out of the water and I have 1foot of daggerboard fully extended! Clearly I need a new keel. Has anyone any ideas of availability or manufacture?

Regards,

John Richardson 'Sonny' 26M

roly.simpson
Re: 26M - a problem!

Ah, I see . There was talk out the AGM about getting a mold of a brand new dagger board that Simon Armitage was about to fit . He got it shipped from Estonia I think?! Look on ebay but maybe call Simon in case we can get a mold. A quick search found someone who could make a mold in Salisbury . I have a pristine M rudder that needs copying also.

Roly

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