I don't know the geometry of your situation but when freeing mine (although a swing keel so a bit different and harder to get to) I found clonking to be ineffective. If you have a broom with a comfortable looking head on it that you can sneak out of the house without Mrs F seeing then cut the handle down so you can sit on the comfortable broom head (a cushion would help) and jiggle up and down with your full body weight this is more likely to shift it. Something else to load into the grey matter is that you too may be cursed with a mooring with the "wrong kind of mud" so you may have to work out a preventative measure (maybe keep the board down a few inches or attach something to the bottom edge of the board that sits flush against the hull) Or have a system that unsticks it. I really wouldn't recommend the tarp nappy system, it does work but you always get mud everywhere when you take it on and off, there must be a better way.
Just for general info the mud in our marina is no problem but the mud on the swinging mooring 150 yards away clogs it up in one tide.
Thanks Harry, the geometry is basically just straight up and down so the broom idea should work ok assuming there's nothing but mud blocking the bottom of the board.
I don't think I'll force it down too hard but I will try your modified broom idea - ie one short enough to sit on.
If this doesn't free it up I'll just have to drop the mast.
On the question of mast dropping, do folk know if it's possible to lower it without removing the boom/mail sail?
—
MacGregor 26M 2009 - Sky's the Limit - Suzuki DF50
Ok, well we had another MacPinic on the mooring as it was really too windy for Mrs F's first foray; albeit under power.
Anyway prior to our picnic she sunbathed on one of the cockpit cushions whilst I busied myself about my list...
As you can imagine I was keen to try to dislodge our jammed daggerboard so I set about it with various blocks of wood, hammers etc.
All I managed to achieve was jamming it further so that now I couldn't even move it upwards - hey ho!
Not it sure what to do now.
My plan is to swim under the boat with a key hole saw to look things over (or under) and hopefully carve out any mud blocking the bottom of the db case.
—
MacGregor 26M 2009 - Sky's the Limit - Suzuki DF50
You seem to be in a bit of a pickle with the dagger board!
I'm not overly familiar with the M dagger board, having only owned Macs with swing boards. However, it would seem to me that because pushing it down has jammed it in harder then it's unlikely to be mud that's the problem. I would think the only way it's going to come out is upwards, then you may be able to see what the problem is. Have you tried using the winch to pull the lifting rope in order to get it to come up again?
I suspect you will have to drop the mast and pull it out upwards. You will need to take the boom off, but you should be able to leave the sail on the boom, which simplifies things a bit.
Good luck!
—
Rick Jones (Treasurer), former 26X & 19 owner, Isle of Wight
Taking the mast down while afloat is a dodgy business, Mike. If the boat heels the mast tends to follow the heel so, and from experience, you should find some helpers. One, at least to stand on the cabin roof to hold onto and guide the mast while you handle the winch. Mrs A isn't strong enough to help this activity. The mast should lower and rise smoothly. Any resistance means something is caught somewhere and there are many places for shrouds and spreaders to catch so take it slowly and easily. Then, as Rick said, you need to detach it from the 'shoe'/hinge so you can access the centre/dagger board. You don't have to go to the effort of bolting the mast onto the pulpit, just move it to one side but be carefull for your spreaders. Might be wise to take them off as they can get in the way. (A 5 minute job.) Vaseline or WD40 is useful a useful lube before putting them back.
This isn't a suggestion, just a hypothetical pondering. Rather than lower the mast, if you slacked off the stays could you lift the foot of the mast out onto a plywood pad just to one side... maybe it wouldn't give you enough clearance to lift the board up. Do you have / know anyone with a gopro type camera you could film under the hull with attached to the boat hook or something (I'm a poor swimmer, thinking of alternatives). I shifted my swing keel by plumbing a hose into the casing, it took about an hour of flushing but there was finally a lovely slurping sound and it dropped under its own steam. I'm still not 100% convinced mud is the whole story either but you have established something is wedging it so progress is being made.
The first thing I do when I get to work is check for updates from you, keep them coming, we're all with you (virtually!)
Just the wrong kind of mud Mike. You'll work it out, there's always a way! I recon (if mud and once freed up) if you keep your keel down a couple of inches or maybe add a little wing to the bottom of the keel that should stop it. And of course it may well not be mud.
In the interest of solidarity I've tried to upload a picture of me trying to work out why our keel was stuck (with the aid of a couple of oars, a fender and a small plastic spade... not great health and safety!)
The very worst case is you may have to pop her back on the trailer to have a proper look but that's all good practice (says he who gets the yard to launch and retrieve his Mac!)
Hi Mike. I sent a message before but guess it failed since I was in river Yealm at the time. I have an M but have not had ghetto same problem despite being on a mud mooring for several years. However I am award that sometimes the safety line can hang down in the slot and jam it. Also more often there is a chunk taken out of the trailing edge due to previous impact and this then stops board from dropping. Once on an event I had to dive under a members boat to free it before the tide ran out at Bembridge on the Isle of Wight . Might be a jiggle will free it otherwise have to drop mast and pull up the board.
I don't know the geometry of your situation but when freeing mine (although a swing keel so a bit different and harder to get to) I found clonking to be ineffective. If you have a broom with a comfortable looking head on it that you can sneak out of the house without Mrs F seeing then cut the handle down so you can sit on the comfortable broom head (a cushion would help) and jiggle up and down with your full body weight this is more likely to shift it. Something else to load into the grey matter is that you too may be cursed with a mooring with the "wrong kind of mud" so you may have to work out a preventative measure (maybe keep the board down a few inches or attach something to the bottom edge of the board that sits flush against the hull) Or have a system that unsticks it. I really wouldn't recommend the tarp nappy system, it does work but you always get mud everywhere when you take it on and off, there must be a better way.
Just for general info the mud in our marina is no problem but the mud on the swinging mooring 150 yards away clogs it up in one tide.
Good luck!
Thanks Harry, the geometry is basically just straight up and down so the broom idea should work ok assuming there's nothing but mud blocking the bottom of the board.
I don't think I'll force it down too hard but I will try your modified broom idea - ie one short enough to sit on.
If this doesn't free it up I'll just have to drop the mast.
On the question of mast dropping, do folk know if it's possible to lower it without removing the boom/mail sail?
MacGregor 26M 2009 - Sky's the Limit - Suzuki DF50
Ok, well we had another MacPinic on the mooring as it was really too windy for Mrs F's first foray; albeit under power.
Anyway prior to our picnic she sunbathed on one of the cockpit cushions whilst I busied myself about my list...
As you can imagine I was keen to try to dislodge our jammed daggerboard so I set about it with various blocks of wood, hammers etc.
All I managed to achieve was jamming it further so that now I couldn't even move it upwards - hey ho!
Not it sure what to do now.
My plan is to swim under the boat with a key hole saw to look things over (or under) and hopefully carve out any mud blocking the bottom of the db case.
MacGregor 26M 2009 - Sky's the Limit - Suzuki DF50
Hi Mike
You seem to be in a bit of a pickle with the dagger board!
I'm not overly familiar with the M dagger board, having only owned Macs with swing boards. However, it would seem to me that because pushing it down has jammed it in harder then it's unlikely to be mud that's the problem. I would think the only way it's going to come out is upwards, then you may be able to see what the problem is. Have you tried using the winch to pull the lifting rope in order to get it to come up again?
I suspect you will have to drop the mast and pull it out upwards. You will need to take the boom off, but you should be able to leave the sail on the boom, which simplifies things a bit.
Good luck!
Rick Jones (Treasurer), former 26X & 19 owner, Isle of Wight
Thanks Rick, I'll probably lever it directly upwards with an old fashioned lever as I'm concerned about the strain on the existing gear.
Anyway it'll be fun taking the mast down on the water, haven't done that yet.
I've done a bit of Googling re daggerboards jamming and mud/silt (I'm on a drying mooring) seems to be a recurring theme, whatever the boat.
Watch this space...
MacGregor 26M 2009 - Sky's the Limit - Suzuki DF50
Taking the mast down while afloat is a dodgy business, Mike. If the boat heels the mast tends to follow the heel so, and from experience, you should find some helpers. One, at least to stand on the cabin roof to hold onto and guide the mast while you handle the winch. Mrs A isn't strong enough to help this activity. The mast should lower and rise smoothly. Any resistance means something is caught somewhere and there are many places for shrouds and spreaders to catch so take it slowly and easily. Then, as Rick said, you need to detach it from the 'shoe'/hinge so you can access the centre/dagger board. You don't have to go to the effort of bolting the mast onto the pulpit, just move it to one side but be carefull for your spreaders. Might be wise to take them off as they can get in the way. (A 5 minute job.) Vaseline or WD40 is useful a useful lube before putting them back.
Good Luck and keep us informed of progress.
Simon
This isn't a suggestion, just a hypothetical pondering. Rather than lower the mast, if you slacked off the stays could you lift the foot of the mast out onto a plywood pad just to one side... maybe it wouldn't give you enough clearance to lift the board up. Do you have / know anyone with a gopro type camera you could film under the hull with attached to the boat hook or something (I'm a poor swimmer, thinking of alternatives). I shifted my swing keel by plumbing a hose into the casing, it took about an hour of flushing but there was finally a lovely slurping sound and it dropped under its own steam. I'm still not 100% convinced mud is the whole story either but you have established something is wedging it so progress is being made.
The first thing I do when I get to work is check for updates from you, keep them coming, we're all with you (virtually!)
Thanks Guys, lots of helpful stuff.
Definitely looking for a solution here as it really is a sailing scuppering situation.
Even if I find the culprit is mud AND I manage to clean it out I still have to find a workable way forward.
I guess the short answer is that the boat wasn't designed for a drying swinging mooring.
MacGregor 26M 2009 - Sky's the Limit - Suzuki DF50
Just the wrong kind of mud Mike. You'll work it out, there's always a way! I recon (if mud and once freed up) if you keep your keel down a couple of inches or maybe add a little wing to the bottom of the keel that should stop it. And of course it may well not be mud.
In the interest of solidarity I've tried to upload a picture of me trying to work out why our keel was stuck (with the aid of a couple of oars, a fender and a small plastic spade... not great health and safety!)
The very worst case is you may have to pop her back on the trailer to have a proper look but that's all good practice (says he who gets the yard to launch and retrieve his Mac!)
under the hull.jpg
Hi Mike. I sent a message before but guess it failed since I was in river Yealm at the time. I have an M but have not had ghetto same problem despite being on a mud mooring for several years. However I am award that sometimes the safety line can hang down in the slot and jam it. Also more often there is a chunk taken out of the trailing edge due to previous impact and this then stops board from dropping. Once on an event I had to dive under a members boat to free it before the tide ran out at Bembridge on the Isle of Wight . Might be a jiggle will free it otherwise have to drop mast and pull up the board.
Roly
Pages