I'm not sure if it has a hose connection for flushing or just the usual intake grill; will have to wait till Monday when I pick it up; can't find a manual online anywhere.
—
MacGregor 26M 2009 - Sky's the Limit - Suzuki DF50
I did find the workshop manual online but the owners manual, which has flushing instructions isn't available anywhere.
However the Suzuki main marine site does have a Maintenance section which mentions that 4 of their models (mine included) don't feature hose style flushing intakes.
Looks like I'll have to resort to lowering the leg into one of those plastic gardening bins and fill it with fresh water from my onboard tank - which I'm not planning to use for drinking etc anyway. I guess that would be a good approach as there's no worry about sealing around the intake nor any concern about sufficient pressure at the (non-existent) hose intake point. The only care will be to ensure that I can maintain sufficient water level in said plastic bin.
Starting to sound like a plan:)
—
MacGregor 26M 2009 - Sky's the Limit - Suzuki DF50
I've tried using a hose inlet for flushing, but found in practice that it's a lot quicker to just use muffs (talking about doing this on the trailer).
With the hose, you not only have to remove the plug and screw in the adapter, a fiddly process that requires at least one tool, but you also have to seal the inlet vents with gaffer tape. By the time you've done that, and the reverse when finished, you can be flushed and done using muffs.
The main thing to be careful of is that the muff doesn't fall off or shift position so the engine loses water supply.
On a mooring, the bin seems a reasonable idea, although the amount of water required is lot to have to carry on board.
—
Rick Jones (Treasurer), former 26X & 19 owner, Isle of Wight
When ever I've used a hose fitting on any outboard I've not covered the inlets. It pushes lots of water backwards down the leg and out of the inlet removing any weed and silt and since the leg has plenty of water in it the impeller can draw in as much as it needs. As long as the tell tale is running then the engine has the water it needs. The ones I've used simply have a cap over the adapter so no need to keep screwing and unscrewing it.
The only potential issue I've found is running the engine tilted. Most manufacturers say don't do it on four strokes (there is a potential to starve the engine of oil if they have the pick up for the oil pump in a bad position). But having looked at the service manuals I've never actually found an engine that would have this problem. I suspect it is an old design issue with some engines that has now been adopted into the cover all advice you get in the user manuals simply because no one has thought to remove it. There is also a possible problem with carburetors (obviously doesn't apply to more modern injection engines), but the worst that can happen is the engine splutters and stops from over/under fueling, again I've never found it actually happens in the short time the engine is run when tilted.
Thanks Guys, the bit about tilting is very helpful for me Dave as I have been wondering about that, not only in regard to flushing but also operating in shallow creeks - which we have a lot of here in Falmouth.
—
MacGregor 26M 2009 - Sky's the Limit - Suzuki DF50
Following on from that, it got me wonder about what happens to the various types of silt (animal, vegetable or mineral) that get drawn in through the water intake grill.
Is there usually a filter? - I noticed there was one on our Bavaria 38's onboard diesel on my Day Skipper last week.
—
MacGregor 26M 2009 - Sky's the Limit - Suzuki DF50
Inboard engines generally have a raw water strainer/filter located where you can change/clean it. Outboards don't normally have this as they directly use the raw water for the cooling rather than via a heat exchanger to primary coolant in a closed system.
The inlet grill should limit the size of the material drawn in so that the impeller and water channels can cope with it. In practice the problems are normally weed, that will block the inlet or sticky silts that will gum up the water channels. Regular flushing should keep both at bay. Abrasive sands will wear the impeller.
The important bit is to keep an eye on the tell tale water to make sure it's flowing as normal. Modern engines have over temperature protection or alarms. The Yamahas have a temperature switch that limits the engine revs, so you know you have a problem but aren't left without any power.
Always carry a spare impeller and the tools to change it. I recommend practicing incase you need to do it in anger. You are bound to find you need one more tool than you thought you did! Impellers do age and wear and need to be routinely replaced in servicing, don't wait for it to fail.
"Always carry a spare impeller and the tools to change it." :-o
Dave, did you mean change the impeller with the boat in the water?? Having changed the impeller on my Tohatsu 50 while on the trailer, and considering myself a reasonably competent mechanic, I would think it near on impossible to do the same job while afloat, especially out at sea. The very thought of getting the roll pin out of the gear linkage while hanging over the transom fills me with dread, let alone dropping the lower leg off the engine. Maybe the Yamaha is different and can be done much more easily?
I believe this is what's known as "preventative maintenance" and done as a matter of course every season, with plenty of time, tools, and maybe a bit of assistance. If the engine fails due to a broken impeller, it's either a small get-you-home engine, sail as best you can, or call the coast-guard in an emergency. I find doing anything in anger is usually a disaster!
John, you're absolutely right, I wasn't advocating doing it over water (Believe me it's bad enough doing a prop change over water) but it's just the sort of failure that does happen and can be fixed quickly if you're prepared, assuming you can put the boat back on dry land or at a pinch stern to at a marina jetty.
Other than routine servicing I've done 4 (only 1 was mine), so based on that I reckon I have a 10% chance in any year.
My advice to avoid the problem would be:
Proper regular servicing.
Don't trust that they have changed the parts they claim to, always ask for the old bits back.
Carry spares, then you won't need them (at least not for your boat).
Don't go to the rescue of other boats and you'll save yourself loads of work ;-)
Thanks Tim-Jen,
I have a 2009 Suzuki DF50.
I'm not sure if it has a hose connection for flushing or just the usual intake grill; will have to wait till Monday when I pick it up; can't find a manual online anywhere.
MacGregor 26M 2009 - Sky's the Limit - Suzuki DF50
I did find the workshop manual online but the owners manual, which has flushing instructions isn't available anywhere.
However the Suzuki main marine site does have a Maintenance section which mentions that 4 of their models (mine included) don't feature hose style flushing intakes.
Looks like I'll have to resort to lowering the leg into one of those plastic gardening bins and fill it with fresh water from my onboard tank - which I'm not planning to use for drinking etc anyway. I guess that would be a good approach as there's no worry about sealing around the intake nor any concern about sufficient pressure at the (non-existent) hose intake point. The only care will be to ensure that I can maintain sufficient water level in said plastic bin.
Starting to sound like a plan:)
MacGregor 26M 2009 - Sky's the Limit - Suzuki DF50
I've tried using a hose inlet for flushing, but found in practice that it's a lot quicker to just use muffs (talking about doing this on the trailer).
With the hose, you not only have to remove the plug and screw in the adapter, a fiddly process that requires at least one tool, but you also have to seal the inlet vents with gaffer tape. By the time you've done that, and the reverse when finished, you can be flushed and done using muffs.
The main thing to be careful of is that the muff doesn't fall off or shift position so the engine loses water supply.
On a mooring, the bin seems a reasonable idea, although the amount of water required is lot to have to carry on board.
Rick Jones (Treasurer), former 26X & 19 owner, Isle of Wight
Rick,
When ever I've used a hose fitting on any outboard I've not covered the inlets. It pushes lots of water backwards down the leg and out of the inlet removing any weed and silt and since the leg has plenty of water in it the impeller can draw in as much as it needs. As long as the tell tale is running then the engine has the water it needs. The ones I've used simply have a cap over the adapter so no need to keep screwing and unscrewing it.
The only potential issue I've found is running the engine tilted. Most manufacturers say don't do it on four strokes (there is a potential to starve the engine of oil if they have the pick up for the oil pump in a bad position). But having looked at the service manuals I've never actually found an engine that would have this problem. I suspect it is an old design issue with some engines that has now been adopted into the cover all advice you get in the user manuals simply because no one has thought to remove it. There is also a possible problem with carburetors (obviously doesn't apply to more modern injection engines), but the worst that can happen is the engine splutters and stops from over/under fueling, again I've never found it actually happens in the short time the engine is run when tilted.
Dave.
Dave Newton Sailbadthesinner
Thanks Guys, the bit about tilting is very helpful for me Dave as I have been wondering about that, not only in regard to flushing but also operating in shallow creeks - which we have a lot of here in Falmouth.
MacGregor 26M 2009 - Sky's the Limit - Suzuki DF50
Following on from that, it got me wonder about what happens to the various types of silt (animal, vegetable or mineral) that get drawn in through the water intake grill.
Is there usually a filter? - I noticed there was one on our Bavaria 38's onboard diesel on my Day Skipper last week.
MacGregor 26M 2009 - Sky's the Limit - Suzuki DF50
Inboard engines generally have a raw water strainer/filter located where you can change/clean it. Outboards don't normally have this as they directly use the raw water for the cooling rather than via a heat exchanger to primary coolant in a closed system.
The inlet grill should limit the size of the material drawn in so that the impeller and water channels can cope with it. In practice the problems are normally weed, that will block the inlet or sticky silts that will gum up the water channels. Regular flushing should keep both at bay. Abrasive sands will wear the impeller.
The important bit is to keep an eye on the tell tale water to make sure it's flowing as normal. Modern engines have over temperature protection or alarms. The Yamahas have a temperature switch that limits the engine revs, so you know you have a problem but aren't left without any power.
Always carry a spare impeller and the tools to change it. I recommend practicing incase you need to do it in anger. You are bound to find you need one more tool than you thought you did! Impellers do age and wear and need to be routinely replaced in servicing, don't wait for it to fail.
Dave Newton Sailbadthesinner
Wow, thanks Dave, will definitely consult the service manual re changing the impeller and get a spare.
MacGregor 26M 2009 - Sky's the Limit - Suzuki DF50
"Always carry a spare impeller and the tools to change it." :-o
Dave, did you mean change the impeller with the boat in the water?? Having changed the impeller on my Tohatsu 50 while on the trailer, and considering myself a reasonably competent mechanic, I would think it near on impossible to do the same job while afloat, especially out at sea. The very thought of getting the roll pin out of the gear linkage while hanging over the transom fills me with dread, let alone dropping the lower leg off the engine. Maybe the Yamaha is different and can be done much more easily?
I believe this is what's known as "preventative maintenance" and done as a matter of course every season, with plenty of time, tools, and maybe a bit of assistance. If the engine fails due to a broken impeller, it's either a small get-you-home engine, sail as best you can, or call the coast-guard in an emergency. I find doing anything in anger is usually a disaster!
John, you're absolutely right, I wasn't advocating doing it over water (Believe me it's bad enough doing a prop change over water) but it's just the sort of failure that does happen and can be fixed quickly if you're prepared, assuming you can put the boat back on dry land or at a pinch stern to at a marina jetty.
Other than routine servicing I've done 4 (only 1 was mine), so based on that I reckon I have a 10% chance in any year.
My advice to avoid the problem would be:
Proper regular servicing.
Don't trust that they have changed the parts they claim to, always ask for the old bits back.
Carry spares, then you won't need them (at least not for your boat).
Don't go to the rescue of other boats and you'll save yourself loads of work ;-)
Dave.
Dave Newton Sailbadthesinner
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