I have just bought a 2000 26X. It only has a starting battery in the pedestal.
My wife likes her creature comforts and the length of the sailing season / my peace of mind would be helped massively if we could run 240v electricity heater / small microwave / electric blanket ( not all at once). Would the following work?
- additional 2 x 240 a/h deep cycle batteries
- pure sine wave inverter 12v to 240v - fuse to new batteries
- 120a combination switch to prevent starter motor drain
- rewire standard 12v fuse board to new batteries
- leave existing batteries / alternator connections as they are
- shore power cable with rcd if at mooring with power
If my calculations are right that should give c. 2 to 3 hours of 1kw 240v power to take batteries down to 40% power.i have the batteries which are c.£400 each so the cost looks pretty good at under £200. I originally thought about a suitcase generator but the noise at a mooring might be an issue
Any suggestions welcome, is the plan workable?
Steve
Hi Steve
The X was manufactured with a house battery located under the small seat aft of the galley unit. However it was only typically 85 aH so nowhere near large enough for your purposes. I'm surprised it's not there (unless you haven't found it!). 2 x 240 aH is a lot of juice, but if you've already got the batteries, why not? I'm not sure where you could locate them though.
For isolation and cross-charging, the best device is a VSR (voltage sensitive relay), also go by other names. These automatically link the batteries when charging power is present, and isolate them otherwise. They also work both ways, so if you have shore power charging the house batteries, when the batteries are full the charging will fall over to top up the starter battery. The old "1-2-both" switches are positively stone-age these days.
I've used one of these on both my Macs very successfully:
http://www.kurandamarine.co.uk/victron-energy/victron-cyrix-battery-comb...
Rick Jones (Treasurer), former 26X & 19 owner, Isle of Wight
Thanks Rick
I think that the VSR and the battery combiner are the same thing. That is the model I am looking at.My battery is defiantly in the pedestal. Silly place to put a battery on a boat in my opinion but that's where it is.
Looks like I am the right lines given that it works in your boats.
Steve
Hi Steve
OK, we're on the same track with the VSR. I thought you were maybe thinking of a manual isolator switch. Glad you're not!
MacGregor always shipped the 26X without an outboard, and left it up to the buyer or dealer to work out how to fit one, including controls. That's why you'll find loads of different engine and control configurations. They supplied a house battery fitted where I described, but no wiring for charging it! The UK dealers usually installed an additional starter battery with the outboard, and safety rules required it to be located outside the cabin - hence the pedestal. Most people retained the house battery together with some cross-charging arrangement.
I wouldn't want to rely on one battery for everything. Maybe the house battery wore out and Tim never replaced it.
That's just a bit of background info, hope it's interesting if not actually useful!
Rick Jones (Treasurer), former 26X & 19 owner, Isle of Wight
Dear Steve,
My initial thoughts are that these batteries are going to add a substantial weight, you will need to keep them low and centred if they are not to have too serious an effect on the boats handling.
They will need a substantial charger if you want to be able to recharge from a shore supply in a sensible time. For recharge in 12 hours you need 60% x 480 Ahr /12 hours / 75% charge acceptance / 80% average output = minimum 40 A charger.
A 1kW heater is going to drain the batteries at approx C/5, at this rate you will get about 70% of the capacity at low ambient temperatures say up to 15 degC
This could give you as much as 4 hours heating (assuming the batteries are in tip top condition).
If you discharge to 40% you should get a life of around 250-350 cycles providing you recharge fairly soon after.
If you are not able to recharge for 24-48 hours you can halve this life.
If you are planning a shore supply; as well as an RCD, don't forget to fit a galvanic isolator or an isolation transformer or you could watch you outboard dissolve!
If you have dual supply: Shore and/or Inverter then you must ensure they cannot be run in parallel and that the inverter doesn't liven up the pins on the shore supply plug.
Also watch you don't create a 'perpetual power machine': Inverter runs charger, charges batteries which power the inverter.....
The AC system needs to be done to high standards to be safe, if you have any doubts please ask first, I don't offer consultations to the afterlife! :shock:
Regards
Dave.
Dave Newton Sailbadthesinner
Dave
That is massively helpful. I had not really considered the scale of the recharging issue - dumb.
I may need a rethink and reduce the system to one battery, add an alternative non-electric heater source and use a 12 v microwave / electric blanket.
I was planning to put the batteries (battery) under the v berth, low, central and secure. They are heavy at 67kg each but not massive dimensions at 522x238x240mm.
I would have had the 240v system professionally installed for the reasons you outline.
Thanks
Steve,
AC
Microwave is typically only used for a few minutes at a time and 12v versions cost a packet.
Electric Blanket is only around 80 to 160W, I've never seen a 12v version but I guess they exist.
I would be concerned about using an EB in a potentially salt water damp environment, pre heat only and disconnect before going to bunk would be my advice.
A small inverter is a cheaper option than special 12v appliances.
I can supply an IP65 consumer unit with RCD, Automatic Inverter/Shore change over, connection for charger to avoid the perpetual power problem and in built galvanic isolator.
This then reduces the installation to mounting and simple wiring up of the shore connector, inverter, IP 13A sockets and the charger. Depending on where you are I can help if needed.
DC
Victron do an IP65 15A multi stage charger, it may be cheaper to use one per battery than a single bigger charger.
Weight
134kg up front would have an effect on how readily the boat gets onto the plane and how much she slams in choppy weather but it's hard to predict how much effect.
Without the heater one battery should be ample, most of us survive with 80 to 110 Ahr.
Dave.
Dave Newton Sailbadthesinner
Steve
Our 2004 26X has the large storage compartment under the starbord aft seat in the saloon (facing forward). There is quite a lot of space underneath that storage compartment and that is where I have placed my 220Ah house battery. It is low down and central and is strapped down and set in its own battery box of course. I have fitted a ventilation panel to allow any battery gases (lighter than air) to escape.
I have my VSR wired so that it allows charging of the starter battery first then when that is at full voltage it opens up to charge the house battery.
One feature of using a VSR that I have come across is the need to have the starter battery and house battery both within a certain voltage range which is a problem if you were to discharge the house battery heavily. When the charge source comes in to play the VSR charges the starter battery to the required voltage then opens up to introduce the house battery which immediately saps the juice from the starter battery thus lowering its voltage so the VSR closes - all this happens rapidly and what you get is an alarming clicking noise - I don't know if the process is detrimental to the VSR or the batteries but something to be aware of. My system is 10 years old now - maybe this isn't an issue with newer stuff.
Mike
Thanks Mike
I am minded to replicate your set up with the addition of a " silent" suitcase generator to use when not too close to other occupied boats.
It seems simpler to avoid 240v and the need for a inverter / isolator - maybe a mod for the future when I add shore power. I will just use a simple shore power lead with rcd for now when in a marina and the generator when not.
Buying things for the boat seems addictive.
Steve
Definitions -
Boat: a hole in the water into which you tip money [WHITE SMILING FACE]
Rick Jones (Treasurer), former 26X & 19 owner, Isle of Wight
Hi folks,
The previous owner of the Macgregor 26X had the 12v systems refitted. The engineer at the time considered the 240v systems unsafe and removed them. The only bits of the latter remaining are a couple of double 13A switched sockets and the shore 240v socket on the boat.
There is a large old rotary switch with a safety lock / catch, which apparently allows choice of which battery is charged by the generator fitted to the outboard. It might do other things as well, but as the house batteries are so flat, it's difficult to say.
The consideration is to fit an RCD consumer unit, where its output feeds a 3000w pure sine wave inverter, which also incorporates an up-to 75A battery charger. The inverter is auto-switching and when powered by external mains supply, simply passes this through to the 240v output. By using a VSR, I could then charge the outboard battery with priority over the house batteries. I will probably dispose of the two existing house batteries and replace with one large heavy duty type.
What I don't understand, is what is a 'galvanic isolator' and where do you obtain such an item and where is it fitted please?
Left hand down a little
David
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