trailer overheating hub early warning system

Hi
One of my biggest fears when trailering is the dreaded overheating hub. Generally, unchecked this will cause a blowout, and severely damage the bearings. That will be an immediate £130+ plus all the headaches that could go with it. I was lucky.. I had greased my wheel nuts, so as it warmed up, my nuts dropped off. Literally. In retrospect this was the lesser of 2 evils it would seem.
Restless enterprise will soon be going to trials with a simple system to give a beep/flashing led alarm should any of the trailer hubs start getting warmer than 60deg.
If anyone else would like to help test the system out please get in touch and I shall prepare the kit. Easy to install, £25 should cover a prototype.
It is simply 2 (or 4) 60deg temp sensors to be sikaflexed onto the hub, a waterproof connection to the trailing vehicle with a simple on off with beep or flashing led. I think I prefer the led, though with a beeper it could be wired in the boot, => lot less messing with wires u to the front.
Annoyingly most commercial tyre sensors (temp/pressure) don't cover the super high psi in out tyres, or £110 would see the job done.
Weather's lovely, hope some of you are out there while I try to patch the boat up again!

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; In practice, there is.

32 Comments

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

Hi Bjorn, I've just noticed your posting about overheating hubs. I took my boat down to the Tamar a week or so ago, a bit late in the season I know, but don't ask! After half an hour on the road I pulled into a layby to check tyres and hubs, and guess what, the front nearside hub was more than a bit warm. So, what to do? of course the only thing to do was to proceed, so I slowed down to 50-60 and kept a lookout on the n/s mirror for smoke. Luckily none came and we launched with no further probs, BUT your hub alarm sounds as if it could certainly be of benefit. Can I contribute £25 to the cause and get a Beta version [as I believe we should call prototypes these days]? The only trouble is that I won't be able to test it until the end of Sept when I drag the old girl out again.

You know where I am if you want to have a [another] chat. :lol:

Paul
[Ex 'Crackerjack' - 26M]

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

Interesting idea for monitoring the symptoms of a problem.

Delving into the cause of the problem and what to do if it happens (subject to being corrected as I don't claim to be an expert!):-

Overheating hubs can be caused by bearings starting to fail. In this case you're doomed. Heat and smoke = imminent complete failure with the hub falling to bits and the wheel coming off :o Proper regular maintenance helps avoid this. Suggestion - before a journey if you (safely) jack up the trailer and with the brakes off spin the wheels and rattle them you can check for a nasty scraping noise that could indicate bearing trouble.

Overheating hubs can also be caused by binding brakes. Proper regular maintenance helps avoid this. Suggestion - if you are on the road and think the brakes are binding consider getting under the trailer (not jacked up) and get WD40 into the cable ends where they pass through the "compensator bracket" (ie not the drum end which you can't immediately reach anyway) and give them a good wiggle. Also give the wheels/brake drums a few judicious bashes with a soft mallet (yes, I always carry one). This might encourage sticky brakes to back off properly. Finally, I might back off the suspect brake via the adjuster in the backplate in order to complete the journey (being aware of reduced/unbalanced braking that would ensue).

Hope this helps

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

Thanks Mike, good timing as I have been putting off getting the offending wheel off and checking the bearing, so with my new found knowledge, I will be able to sort the problem in half the time, or at least with a modicum of skill. :D :o

Paul

Paul
[Ex 'Crackerjack' - 26M]

rick.jones's picture

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

I've realised that the problem of binding brakes can to a large extent be ameliorated by being extremely careful how you park the trailer.

It's all too easy to reverse the trailer to where you want it, and leave it. It's also tempting to leave the hand-brake on. However, either of these actions leave the brake shoes pressing against the hubs. This may not be too bad if you've just finished towing for some miles, but if you've just recovered from the water then the brake shoes are wet which seems to make them prone to stick, and the mechanism is in greatest danger of seizing - especially so if it's salt water.

Earlier this year I had to completely strip and de-rust the brakes on all four wheels, and I took some time to understand exactly how the braking mechanism works - it's quite interesting! Mine are Al-ko hubs, but I think the other makes work essentially the same way.

What I do now when parking is first make sure I exercise the whole brake mechanism. This helps stop things getting seized up through lack of use. Then I ensure that I leave it parked with the brakes completely released, and the hand-brake off (I chock the wheels to prevent any rolling).

To exercise the brakes, you first need to reverse the trailer a short distance (a foot or so is enough). This action applies the brakes, then invokes the mechanism that releases the brakes as the wheels turn backwards. The next thing is to put the hand-brake on - it should spring up to about half-way. Then try to reverse a bit further - the trailer should move a few inches while the handbrake springs up to vertical. This action invokes the mechanism that fully brakes the wheels in reverse. Each of these actions moves different parts inside the brake hub, encouraging them not to stick, and also confirming that they work.

Then, to park the trailer with the brakes released, take the hand-brake off and pull the trailer gently forwards into position. Be careful not to stop suddenly, or you'll apply the overrun brake again! The piston behind the tow hitch should be fully extended. Finally chock the wheels. If you have trouble stopping with the piston extended you can pull forward a tiny bit after you've chocked wheels.

If you don't have a spring-up hand-brake then your mechanism is a bit different, but I would still recommend using this process except for the reverse-with-hand-brake-on part which probably wouldn't do anything.

I was forever having problems with binding brakes when I came to move the trailer, but so far everything's been fine since using this process. I'd be interested to know if it works for anyone else!

Rick Jones (Treasurer), former 26X & 19 owner, Isle of Wight

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

Thanks for those great ideas Rick. Just to underline the point about the handbrake - it is a temporary handbrake not a parking brake. The trailer should never be left with the handbrake on and indeed using Rick's marvellous procedures the brakes will definitely be OFF!

Rick - you have touched on something that has puzzled me for ages. Here are 3 scenarios

1 When reversing the rig
The trailer starts off stationary and without any force making the wheels want to go backwards
Car reverses and first pushes piston
Brakes go ON
Trailer is still stationary at this point
Then the force of the car follows through to give a backward push to the trailer wheels whilst the brakes are on
Then the brake shoes collapse giving backward motion which is what you want to happen when reversing the rig.

2 The trailer is attached to the car on a launch ramp. You put the handbrake on and unhitch.
Trailer is stationary but there is a force making the wheels want to go backwards
Handbrake is put on
Brakes go ON
Trailer is unhitched thus increasing that backward force on the trailer wheels but trailer is still stationary
This time the brake shoes don’t collapse

3 The trailer is attached to the car on a launch ramp and it jumps off the tow hitch.
This time the trailer is actually moving backwards with brakes OFF
The breakaway cable pulls the handbrake on which pulls the brakes ON
The trailer is moving backwards and is then stopped by the brakes
Again the brake shoes don’t collapse

I would be fascinated to know if you think my analysis of the sequences is right and if you can illustrate the process by which the shoes collapse in some situations but not in others. (but please don't let me tie you down just now with questions - I know you're busy with other things - maybe something to mull over?!
Regards
Mike

rick.jones's picture

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

Hi Mike

You've just described the puzzle that intrigued me, and was the reason I took the time to work out how the bits of the brake mechanism move inside the hub. It's an interesting engineering challenge: how do you allow backward rotation of the wheel to release the brakes when reversing, yet still allow the handbrake to lock the wheels against backward rotation when parked?

It's all to do with how far the brake linkage moves. When you reverse, the movement of the linkage, and hence the mechanism inside the hubs, is limited by the travel of the piston at the tow hitch. The brakes must be adjusted so that this movement is sufficient to apply the brakes when moving forwards, which means that when you reverse, the brakes are also applied initially.

However, one end of one brake shoe sits on a spring-loaded support, and when the wheels turn backward it gives, and allows the pressure on the shoes to release. As this end of the shoe releases, the cable continues to tighten the other end because it's still trying to apply the brakes, but stops when the piston reaches the limit. The wheels can therefore rotate backwards continuously in this state.

If you apply the hand-brake at this point, it will only move halfway up. The hand-brake lever is sprung upwards, which is very important. When the wheels continue to turn backwards, the spring-loaded shoe-end reaches its limit, while the sprung handbrake lever continues to tighten the cable. There's no more "give", and the brakes are now securely applied, preventing rotation either forwards or backwards.

When this fully-locked position has been reached, all the brake parts in the hub have moved, even the adjuster! It was discovering this that made me realise that deliberately exercising the mechanism should help prevent things from seizing up.

So the secret is that the hand-brake can pull the cables further than the piston, this is what enables it to prevent rolling backwards. The upward-sprung design of the brake lever is an essential feature, and the breakaway cable simply applies the hand-brake.

Hopefully the technically curious will find it all interesting!

Rick Jones (Treasurer), former 26X & 19 owner, Isle of Wight

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

Well how about that!
Brilliant - the man who designed it!
And brilliant Rick for sussing it!

Actually, my own attempt to figure it out in my head has always been hindered by a fundamental flaw - I noted that the brake rod went rigid when actuated by the piston or by the handbrake. But I didn't think carefully enough about distance of travel - I just assumed either on or off.

So now we know.

I hope there may be at least one or two other folk who are fascinated by this.

By the way, I have heard comment from more than one other member that they have found that the brakes don't stop the trailer going backwards down a hill. I know they do (I'll tell you some other time). After all, that's what the brakes are for. I suspect that in those cases it may be a case of incorrect adjustment.
Thanks Rick
Mike

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

Nice one Rick.
I had guessed that the geometry allowed something such that the handbrake/piston actuation operated the mech a little differently. I'll have to read all this again. Great stuff for our mactrail book. I reckon we could even publish it in time... as Mike said, we're trailering right at the limits.

Re my early warning system, it worked out brilliantly. Leaving for Greece, the lights came on before I left bournemouth. I pulled over slowly, then wished I'd pulled off straight away! I'd lost three bolts already and one hub was hot as hell. By design I carried spare nuts, which I put in swiftly. Now, how to deal with a hot hub...

With tandem axles, I decided that trying to balance up all the cables was going to be time consuming and tedious. I also wanted to replace the heavy bar pull with a stainless length of 8mm stay. This would allow tighter tolerances as the weight of the bar would not be having such an affect. (I used to have a rope tied across the trailer to support the bar to dampen down the swinging.) Anyway, my cunning plan saw the two axle brake balancers on one long piece of studding, with a series of locking nuts/washers to put where ever needed. Ultimately I joined up just one of the axles to brake. My logic is that one axle is enough to brake the trailer. Should there be any issues of any sort what so ever then I had an emergency back up that could be braought into play within minutes. This is what I did when my light system showed a hot hub. I had obviously not adjusted the set up properly, so rather than fiddle around I simply switched axles and kept an eye on things on the way to Dover. Everything worked fine. I saw the lights again a week or so later... I pulled over straight away but it was only the batteies dying. By then I had taken the habit of zapping the hubs with my infra-red laser gun every stop. The temp was very stable over the run down... 12 hrs a day type trips for over 4 days. The braked axle ran at about 36, the free wheelers ran at 27 degrees.

I realize that technically what I'm doing is not quite legal, however should an authority decide to inspect the set up then it would be difficult to show that they are in 'intended breach' as they are both on the system.

So, hot hub? switch braking axle. Another time I suffered this, with a single axle and some brake binding, I stopped every few miles and poured water on the hub. There was enough on the boat to use in this fashion to get us home. On another occaision I noticed a brake cable not springing all the way home. I wrapped a load of shock cord around the balancer/cable set up. this seemed to do the job and it became a permanent mod for the season. Naughty, but effective.

I really suffered with leaving the handbrake on over the first season... what a pain.. banging the brakes free on every sortie.

great point re excercising the brake systems. I was suprised by how just a little bit of friction on the cables could stop the brake shoes from going fully home. It seems ridiculous to put galvo cables in when stainless ones are just another few pounds.

Re early warning system, I'm very happy with it. The only thing I'm not 100% sure on is how waterproof the sensors are over time, and if they fail, do they 'fail-safe'? I suppose I ought to rip one apart to see what's inside. One can buy realy nice radio senders that screw onto the dustcaps, however they don't go up to the pressure of the 90psi alko tyre set up, plus I am aware that putting a weight on a rubber inflation valve will cause a whole load more flex that it was designed for due to centrifugal action at speed. This is why fancy dust caps to pimp up cars are such a pain, plus try getting one off (ally) that has galvanicly welded itself on... ask any tyre shop!

Overall, I have real peace of mind knowing that my rig has two axles, each one of which can haul the boat on its' own should anything go wrong.

I'm planning on installing a fitting to each hub so I can propely flood them with fresh water when cleaning them. So far I just have a few large holes on some of the backplates to allow a jetwash/hose to squirt through as much water as poss. I do wonder what the best way of rinsing hube after a salt dip would be. Dunking in a river would be good!

Safe trailering all :)

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; In practice, there is.

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

I have fitted a flushing kit to the hubs. The instructions said that the ends should be screwed into the lower predrilled holes on the backplate. That seemed strange as my recollection is that water runs downhill. So I used the upper predrilled holes (after checking that nothing fouled inside).

The end pieces just gives a single jet. It strikes me that it would be better if they gave off a shower spray (something for Bjorn to work on?!)

Anyway, I always jack up each side whilst the water is running and spin the wheels for the full washing machine effect.

Roly came up with a great idea - have a connector from the boat water supply straight to the flushing kit then you can flush whilst driving :D

rick.jones's picture

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

I also fitted a flushing kit about 3 yrs ago. I don't think my kit made any recommendations about where to fit to the backplate, and it seemed logical to fit at the top. But I realised that the pipes would foul the chassis on full suspension travel which would bend, and eventually break, the hoses. Mike: does yours not give that problem?

There were no pre-drilled holes in mine anyway, so I had to drill and tap 1/4 BSP, and I put them fairly low down so the hoses don't foul.

I'm still not entirely convinced whether washing the hubs really makes any difference, but I do it anyway, and with the water flowing I very slowly pull the trailer forward for at least a full turn of the wheels. I reckon that will at least wash the whole braking surface of the drums, if not a lot more!

Rick Jones (Treasurer), former 26X & 19 owner, Isle of Wight

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

auto washing machine and flush out... wow, what an idea!!!
Pre drilled holes in the back of the hubs... never noticed these before. perhaps i was looking on the wrong place, afterall if it needs australian water they would not be too usefull in the northern hemisphere.
The other fantastic opportunity of this system would be to cool the bearings down to equal or less then sea temp, as we all know that a warm bearing will suck salty water into itself past these poxy 'sealed for life' bearing seals-that-aren't-really-proper-bearing-seals-at-all. Grump... £50 odd a shot too... flaming arschloches...
roly has a lovely set of sprung loaded auto grease caps that some saint donate to him ;) though I suspect someone has yet to fit them.....

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; In practice, there is.

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

"Pre drilled holes in the back of the hubs... never noticed these before"

They're behind the green plastic caps (similar to the brake adjuster holes)

8-)

rick.jones's picture

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

brake adjuster holes? what are these??

Hole in backplate that you poke a screwdriver through and rotate the adjuster by levering the notches.

Brake diagram:
IMAGE(http://www.westerntowing.co.uk/acatalog/Alko_Brake_Exploded_Diagram-Hyperlinks2.GIF)

Or with more details, see this page

The hole is behind where the brown parts sit. Note this diagram is rotated approx. 90deg from the orientation of our trailer hubs.

The adjuster is a big problem, because the piston sits in a socket that's part of the backplate. It's steel-on-steel, can't dry out easily, and so rusts and seizes. It not only has to turn to adjust the brakes, it has to slide in and out when the handbrake is applied in order to get reverse braking. A good dollop of waterproof grease when assembling it helps.

Rick Jones (Treasurer), former 26X & 19 owner, Isle of Wight

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

Not sure about the grease idea. I've always worked on the principle of no grease whatsoever inside the drum to prevent contamination of the brake pads - particularly given our "dunk in the water" useage

rick.jones's picture

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

"No grease" is always the received wisdom for purely road-going brakes, and the previous time I fully serviced the brakes I took that approach. In fact I put a thin smear of copper anti-corrosion grease on everything hoping that would stave off rust.

A year later, after several salt water launches, the brakes were so seized I needed a hammer and a blow-lamp to separate the parts! And this despite flushing the drums every time. I left the trailer with all the brake parts removed over 2011 because I knew I wasn't going to tow anywhere, and it just functioned as a storage and launch trailer.

When I re-assembled everything last spring, I used waterproof grease (from Western Towing) on all the moving parts in the drum. It's sticky stuff, not unlike vaseline, so it should stay put and not go runny. Since then I've towed up to Oxfordshire and back, and launched several times here, and the brakes are still working efficiently, including reverse handbrake. I know the brakes work because I can easily mac-bump it - I discovered last year that with no brakes it's impossible, the car brakes alone cannot provide the deceleration needed.

My conclusion is that no-grease is not an option with salt water, but the right grease is fine - in fact essential!

Rick Jones (Treasurer), former 26X & 19 owner, Isle of Wight

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

Very interesting. I haven't yet needed to strip my new hubs from last year but I'll probably have a look inside this winter and depending on what I see might give the contact points a thin smear of waterproof grease which as Rick says is very thick and sticky (I use it on the brake compensation bracket and cable ends).

rick.jones's picture

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

Don't forget the adjuster piston!

This is the most infernal bit of the whole mechanism, and seems as though it could have been designed to rust up. The piston must be free to move in the socket both in rotation and in & out. And of course the screw must be free to turn in the thread. The only way to properly lubricate and protect it is to take it apart and coat all the piston and thread surfaces with grease. To do this you have to remove the brake shoes, so it's almost a complete strip-down just to get to that part. :x

Rick Jones (Treasurer), former 26X & 19 owner, Isle of Wight

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

yup, looks like a good plan. just have to find the right grease. My concern is that the hubs run at about 40, though through hills/mountains with an ambient temp in the mid 30s, then the running temp could be a lot higher. my fear is heat induced viscosity causing grease to contaminate the shoes.

high temp water proof grease then?

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; In practice, there is.

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

I had a chat with Bjorn recently and he suggested that rather than think of the bearings when investigating a warm hub, it was most likely the brake shoes seizing on slightly, or at least not releasing fully, so I thought I had better check and spread a bit of that waterproof grease around, the only problem is getting the hub cover off in the first place. I don't want to use too much force if there is an easy way, so can anyone offer some ideas please?

Paul
[Ex 'Crackerjack' - 26M]

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

When you say "hub cover" do you mean the hub (ie the brake drum) is hard to get off or are you talking about the little silver coloured hub nut cover in the centre of the wheel?

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

Hi Mike, I mean the little silver coloured hub nut cover that keeps the water and dust out. It is normally a tight push fit, but I always have problems getting them off without damage. any ideas?

Paul
[Ex 'Crackerjack' - 26M]

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

Paul

There is an Alko tool for the job but I just use an old flat blade screwdriver and mallet . Wheel off to give you a good angle and patiently tap round and round the edge - eventually you will get a bit of movement and then continue being patient. Then move up to a thicker blade eg an old chisel. When it is off you will need to pop the wheel back on and lower it mostly all the way to the ground so that the hub stays still whilst you apply 290nm of torque to get the nut loosened.

The covers aren't too expensive to renew and you will of course be ordering parts anyway - the hub nut is a "one shot" design (the hole in the middle is slightly oval so that when you tighten it, it become round and in so doing it locks itself). This must be renewed each time. Old trailer salts would tell you to re-use the old one by tapping the edge with a hammer to deform the hole back into a slight oval but for us diyers I think renewal is the way to go.

Good luck
Mike

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

OK, having used a large soft lead mallet, my bearing covers are off, but sadly two of the brake drums are 'frozen' onto the brake shoes. I have attacked them with said hammer, but they have not freed off, is there any sage advice as to how these can now be removed so that I can free the innards and stop the brakes sticking on in the future?

Paul
[Ex 'Crackerjack' - 26M]

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

Hey Paul - you're keen - it's minus 2 degrees out there!

I take it you mean you have removed the hub nut cover (the little silver "top hat").

I'm not an expert but here are a couple of thoughts that might help:-

Have you backed off the drums fully using the adjusting star wheel accessed through the brake backplate? Are you sure you have turned the adjuster in the right direction? If in doubt and if you have a couple of wheels free you can do a little reconstruction on the free ones to ensure you get it right (ie tighten up a free one so it binds then back it off again so it's free now make a note of the direction and cross reference it with the markings that are on the backplate)

Also make sure the brake cables are slack. If they are seized then try some wd40 and wiggle them about. You need to be able to get movement pushing the inner cable in and out a little

Then maybe some more judicious tapping with a soft mallet (but not so as to crack the drum). Having slackened things off the brake shoes now have somewhere to go when you shock them.

Rotational force on the drum isn't usually wise as it could strain or damage springs etc. However that might be a last resort on the basis that you will be renewing all of the innards anyway. I would then be tempted to use heat although this may not be considered good practice (it would probably melt the grease in the bearings but I take it they are to be renewed as well).

Good luck.
Mike

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

Just to continue this interesting thread a bit, I have now removed all 4 brake drums, mainly with the aforesaid lead hammer, with no damage done. On at least 2 drums, the brake shoes had 'frozen' onto the drums, and when removed everything inside of all four brakes, including the face of the drums was quite rusty.

What I intend to do now is to wire brush everything in sight, and, with some of that waterproof grease, sparingly put a lining of grease on all parts that touch each other, [not the face of the shoes of course], thinking more of the edges of the shoes where they slide against the back plate, and the adjuster etc. Then clean the bearings and use more waterproof grease and try and WD40 the cables as well as possible. Apparently there are stainless steel inner and outer cables available, has anyone tried these yet?

What is the feeling about using a flush through of the inside of the drums after salt water immersion? Even drilling a hole in the face of the drum and wheel centre, in which a hose could be placed against it would probably work, but is it worth doing?

Paul
[Ex 'Crackerjack' - 26M]

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

Having got as far as you have, I would renew the cables, if nothing else. The stainless are fantastic and aren't much more expensive than the ordinary ones.

Alko do a flushing kit - lengths of hose with nipples that screw into the backplate into an existing hole (covered with a plastic bung). However, I have a feeling earlier axles didn't have the pre drilled hole so you would have to do a bit of drilling in this case. The beauty of this is that the hoses stay in place and all wheels get flushed at once.

The instructions for the hose said to use the lower access hole. I noticed there is an upper hole as well. My recollection of the laws of gravity suggest that water runs downhill so I used the upper hole (having checked there was no obstruction inside). Works fine although I do jack the trailer up and spin the wheels whilst flushing to get the water all round the interior.

Having said all that the easiest way is to remove a wheel bolt and shove a hosepipe in.

Mike

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

If lubricating inside the drum, it might be worth trying Halfords Copper Grease, available in a spray can which says that it "protects against seizure". I use it occasionally without problems.

Bill
Avocet 26X

rick.jones's picture

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

About 3 years ago I used copper grease, smearing it on all the moving surfaces when servicing the brakes. By the end of the season all the parts in the drum were seized solid! It doesn't seem up to the job, especially when hubs are regularly dunked in salt water (as mine are).

I've subsequently used waterproof grease, as sold by Western Towing, and so far it seems to work pretty well. I can't be entirely conclusive though until I check out the hubs in the spring in readiness for next season.

Rick Jones (Treasurer), former 26X & 19 owner, Isle of Wight

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

Ah well, we all have different solutions...........! The essential point is NEVER to leave trailer brakes on when parked. Chock the wheels if necessary.

Bill

Re: trailer overheating hub early warning system

Hi Guys

Ive had both wheels delaminate in the past,i put that down to six year old tyre and allowing my wife to reverse the trailer when i went to get the mac from its mooring,she also managed to mangle the hitchlock that time as well.

I always stop at a lay bye 15 mins into a journey and check the hubs,then ill stop again on the hour and check them once more, but i do like the concept of an alarm system

Matt