Does anyone want a 26M daggerboard mould?

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Does anyone want a dagger board mould for a Mac 26M?

I have a dagger board mould for a 26M that I made and used to make two new boards. It’s a mould that makes half the dagger board but because the dagger board is symmetrical it can be used to make two halves that are then bonded together in the same way as the Macgregor original. There is a full set of instructions for its use on the Macgregor owner’s website and with the mould. I have used it to make two complete new boards and documented the whole process but don’t have room to store it therefore it is available to the first person who is willing to collect it. I would prefer it to be available to any Macgregor owner who wants to use it but if it is not collected before the end of the year it will have to go into a skip.

If anyone is interested please contact me. We are based down on the Blackwater in Essex

Mike Clarke - Tarka 26M

29 Comments

rick.jones's picture

Thanks for offering the mould

Thanks for offering the mould Mike, it would be a great shame if it were thrown away.

It would be great if the MOA could take ownership of it, but it does need someone with space to store it. I'm afraid I can't help with that either. Is there any member who has the space and could look after it?

Rick Jones (Treasurer), former 26X & 19 owner, Isle of Wight

Likewise I would not want

Likewise I would not want this mould to be lost. It's a great asset Mike and something the MOA has discussed for years. Does it need to be kept indoors or could it be in bottom of my garden? Otherwise I have an old shed it might fit in. Anyone else ?

Roly

It needs some sort of weather

It needs some sort of weather protection as moulds left exposed to rain and UV sunlight deteriorate quite quickly, so at least a lean-to and protection from direct sunlight is needed to maintain it in usable condition. It has a surface protector as I made a thin section consisting of a gelcoat and one layer of mat to cure the mould when it was new which stays in place to protect the working surfaces when its not being used.

If I had the room I'd store it myself but its in the way so we can't get at or use our kayaks at the moment.

Mike

david.claassen's picture

how big is it?

how big is it?

David Claassen

"Logan's Run"

2006 26M

Hi David

Hi David

The mould is 1850 x 500 x 100 mm - length x width x depth and weights about 10 kg ie its a bit bigger than the dagger board and a bit lighter.

Photo attached

Mike

Hi,

Hi,

We would be happy to look after the mould.

We are on the Medway so not too far to Essex.

We are abroad at the moment but can make arrangements next weekend by private message if that’s ok?

Regards

Natalie

“Lupus” 26M

Any chance someone could

Any chance someone could order a batch to be made so we might have a supply in UK to save shipping replacements from the states?

Jonathan

Seven Up

Jon Fox

Hi Jonathan  - not sure you

Hi Jonathan - not sure you'll get anyone to pick up your idea of importing boards as they cost $550 each in the states and the import costs would be prohibitive unless you ordered at least half a container load. I can't see anyone wanting to pick up the tab or hold the stock - too risky as an investment. When there was a UK agent they could import stock together as required but that's no longer an option which is why I built the mould and made two new boards. The work involved is significant as you have to wait for each section to set before moving onto the next stage. It takes at least 5 days to make each board (as its essentially a 5 stage process) and there's no way to do it faster but the materials cost is only about £180 per board. Even having two half moulds would only save one day so the initial $550 cost is not unreasonable but the shipping adds at least half as much again and there is VAT and import duty to pay on each board so you end up not seeing much change from £1,000.

Mike - Tarka 26M

Hello Mike,

Hello Mike,

Sorry, I did not make it clear. I was proposing that we use your excellent moulds to make a batch of boards here in the UK to avoid the cost of importing them from the States.

Maybe we could find a boat yard or someone to do this for us. I would be prepared to put my name down for one. Perhaps if we could get a commitment from others (with deposit) we might be able to order a batch of say 5 or so to make it a worthwhile contract for a small business to do it? If we could get them for say £300 - £400 each it would be a bargain.

Every M owner should have a spare!

Jon Fox

Hi Jon,

Hi Jon,

Sorry I misunderstood your original post. If someone wants to use the mould to make more boards I'm sure they are welcome to borrow it from whoever is storing it. I don't know how the cost would work out as its a slow production process. Although it only takes a couple of hour at a time for each stage, most of the time is waiting for the resin to cure ready to do the next stage. So I'm not sure how someone would charge it at a commercial rate. I guess there is about 16 - 20 hours of work total for each board with prep and finishing but not sure how this would work out at commercial rates. If someone can be found to do the work I guess it could be more cost effective to make say 5 boards but not sure who would do it or what they would want to charge per board - but if the demand is there .....

I agree that owners should either have a spare or at least have access to one if they get damaged as its quite easy to damage them beyond repair. Once the central internal stiffener is damaged they can't be repaired. Even quite minor damage is difficult to repair properly with them being a hollow floodable part as they are deigned to break before they do damage to the structural part of the boat they are in.

I still haven't worked out how the rudders are built as although they appear to be a similar hollow flooded design to the dagger board the smaller thickness makes them more difficult to mould and then bond the two parts together. I guess someone will have to cut one open to find out at some point. That's how I managed to reverse engineer the dagger board to make sure it was the same as the original. Making an external shaped mould is the easy bit, and in principle the construction is the same as for the dagger board (full details of which are now downloadable from this web site) the difficult bit is working out how to make the edges bond properly in such a shallow part without introducing distortion - no one wants a bent rudder. It turned out to not be a problem for the thicker section dagger board. I now have two new ones.

Mike - Tarka 26M

I have read the 'M'

I have read the 'M' daggerboard contributions with interest - I had to buy one from the US in June 2016. The process worked out ok although it did take some time to receive as UK customs saw the word 'dagger' on the us paperwork and promptly shunted it into a security lock-up in Felixtowe, pending investigation! It then sat in its cupboard for a week as it could not be found! If anyone is proposing to buy one from the US, my advice is to get Blue Water Yachts to describe it as a keel on all paperwork!

For interest the costs were as follows: Basic cost of keel: $550.00, US internal transport: $55.00, Air freight to UK, inc delivery to my home: $210.00 - US total $815.00 @ 1.37 = £595.80. UK costs were VAT and import duty: £120.51, so a grand total of £716.31. Exchange rates are now somewhat less favourable now, so it would be a bit more expensive.

Pending confirmation of the actual cost of another from the mould, I would put my name down for one.

Has anyone got a mould for 'M' rudders? While I'm on, I think I need a new prop for my Yamaha 50, has anyone got any advice about the best one to get?

Regards to all, John Richardson 'Sonny' 26M

Hi, John,

Hi, John,

I have an unused M rudder which you can borrow to make a mould but as Mike said, you need to cut it open to see the core and I am sorry but I can't let you cut mine open.

I am ashore now for the winter (early bird) so I won't ,hopefully, have need of it for 4 months or so.

Sorry, but am no expert on props.

Simon Armitage

Sowenna 26M

Hi John,

Hi John,

We had to replace our prop this year when someone ran into it in the marina and bent a blade.

The standard prop for a Yamaha 50 high thrust fitted as original equipment on a Mac 26M is a - 13 5/8" x 13" K - which if you buy from the agent it will cost you £170.42 plus carriage but if you buy it from ebay at ssimarineoutboards it appears to be exactly the same prop and casting but costs £85 incl carriage. I can't tell the difference when the old and new are side by side ( -except for the blade not being bent on the new one).

Rather unhelpfully on ours Yamaha put the detail of the size and pitch on the side of the casting facing the motor gearbox so you can't see it until you remove the prop. To replace it you will need some proper marine water proof grease for the splines ( a tube of Yamaha Lical grease can be had from ebay for about £10) but apart from that its easy to remove and replace but you may need to replace the locking split pin with a new one. The other bits seemed to clean up easily with a stiff brush or a bronze wire brush. I replaced ours on the berth from a tender with the engine tilted up without any real problem, although part of the hub did need a little gentle persuasion with a soft faced hammer to part company with the old propeller once removed.

Hope this helps

Mike - Tarka 26M

Hi all,

Hi all,

ive just bought 2 x 500 gram tubs of 'REOLIT AQUA 2' water resistant grease at £9.48 each post free from: opieoils.co.uk , supposedly the bees knees in waterproof grease from eBay. It says on the pot:

Meets DEF STAN 91-34/1, MOD XG 286 AND NATO G-460 Specification for water resistant grease. Fuchs lubricants (UK) PLC.

Sounds good but probably no better than any other waterproof grease.

Reolite Aqua 2 grease is a

Reolite Aqua 2 grease is a perfectly good calcium soap grease and is as it claims waterproof but the Yamaha grease is marginally better and will protect a bit longer for high pressure metal to metal surfaces such as the splines on the drive shaft with better protection in salt water as its a mixed calcium with lithium soap based grease which is why its a bit more expensive. Its also the grease originally specified by Yamaha (PS I'm a chemist that used to develop and design lubricants).

There are a number of calcium based waterproof grease that meet the same specification as the Reolite and can be used in salt water. The best greases significantly exceed the minimum specifications - the DEF standard and the NATO specs are essentially different organisations designation for the same performance specification and were actually for static protection rather than fast moving parts which is why the lithium is included for high pressure protection on fast moving parts.

Mike - Tarka 26M

Hi Mike,

Hi Mike,

Thanks for info, will definitely be changing to Yamaha grease. Is it just sold as Yamaha Waterproof grease or are any more details available/needed. We should collect our boat on Wednesday so looking forward to pumping grease where ever its needed!!

Keith.

Hi Keith

Hi Keith

The Yamaha marine grease I was referring to is available in 225g tubes for about £10 and is called 'Yamalube LiCAL grease', not to be confused with the Yamaha general purpose marine grease which is similar to the Reolite. I would use this on the engine but the Reolite grease you mentioned is great for use on the trailer parts which never see high load pressures or fast rotating metal to metal surfaces like the prop shaft splines. One tube seems to last years in normal motor maintenance.

Mike - Tarka 26M

What about trailer bearings

What about trailer bearings Mike. What do you recommend for them?

Roly

Hi Roly,

Hi Roly,

The trailer bearings don't see what are considered high loads or high speeds when submerged so I would recommend any marine waterproof grease formulated for use in salt water. These are usually calcium based general purpose waterproof greases formulated for water immersion such as the Yamaha general purpose marine grease or the Reolite aqua 2 mentioned. They are sometimes referred to as marine white greases. Just check they are rated for salt water immersion on the spec as it is the anti corrosion properties as well as the ability to lubricate in a wet environment that's important. The same grease is often used for packing stern glands on inboard motors.

Mike - Tarka 26M

Just caught up with the

Just caught up with the latest contributions re my rudder and prop questions, my thanks to Simon and Mike.

As my DIY skills are rated as of the common or garden variety, I'll resist the temptation to build a mould myself Simon, but thanks anyway. If anyone else has the skills/time, I could be interested In buying 2.

Regards to all, John, 'Sonny' 26M

Hi,

We would also put our name down for a dagger board, and if I am reading John’s message correctly he’d be interested in two (dagger boards rather than rudders) - interest is now a total of 5.

Personally I may be swayed to get a further spare if the price is right. Likely others may feel the same.

Regards

Natalie

“Lupus”

Hi Natalie, 

Hi Natalie,

I was actually referring to rudders when I said I'd have 2, I would only want 1 of the daggerboard. Sorry for the confusion.

Regards, John R 'Sonny' 26M

Hi Jonathan,

Hi Jonathan,

I misunderstood. I think it would be great if someone was prepared to sort out and get a few made but the problem is that I’m not sure how commercially viable it would be. Each board costs about £180 in materials and takes 5 days to build as there are five stages to the build and the resin has to cure overnight between stages. This can be reduced to about 4 days if there were two moulds so both halves could be laid-up in one day. It might also be possible to save a day if making multiple boards as for the last stage the mould isn’t actually needed so is free to be laid-up again. I recon there is about 20 hours work to get a finished board with the rest of the time being waiting for the resin to cure. So I’m not sure how this would work out at commercial rates or what savings if any can be made on the materials bought in bulk but I can’t see it being less than £500 per board. But if anyone wants to try we know it can be done and the instructions are available on the web site….

Mike C - Tarka 26M

Hi all

Dagger board

Having just paid for ‘Star’ and moving her home tomorrow, please add us to the list as we would be interested in a dagger board if the price is right.

Ann, Keith & Nelly

Star

duncan.cairney's picture

I can store in my loft or

I can store in my loft or garage if required. Most of my daggerboard is now somewhere in Loch Lomond and I would like to try and fabricate a new one over the winter.

Duncan

Hi Duncan,

Hi Duncan,

Sorry to hear that you’ve lost your dagger board to the local ‘nessy’. Unfortunately I can’t help you as the dagger board mould was collected a few days ago by the first person to respond to my plea for someone to store it as I don’t have room. It’s now up to them to decide if they wish to use it themselves before offering it to others.

However I have posted a full set of instructions of how to both make and use a mould to produce a new dagger board on the Mac website (It’s under the articles section the link is:

https://macgregorowners.org.uk/node/3593

Therefore one option would be for you to produce your own mould if you can find a dagger board to use to take a mould from. Taking a mould does not damage the original board if done properly. Alternatively you could try to find a damaged board and make a superficial skin repair to allow a mould to be made from one half as I did. Any board that is still straight and can be filled to give the proper shape on one side could be used. The one I used had a hole in one side and the internal strut was cracked but it was quite easy to make good one side with fibre glass mat and filler to take a mould off. It costs about £100 to make a mould using the 1m2 mould making kit from East Coast Fibre glass supplies in South Shields which is probably not a lot different to the carriage charge of the mould up to Scotland.

Hope this helps.

Mike C - Tarka 26M

duncan.cairney's picture

Hi Mike, I understand from

Hi Mike, I understand from our conversation that this has been taken by another member. Would it be possible to have her contact details in order that I can request use of the mould when it is available please.

kind regards

Duncan

Duncan

Hi Duncan,

Hi Duncan,

Members contact details are available in the members only area rather than being available inthe public areas - just log in and go to the Members list and contact tab.

Regards Mike

Mike C - Tarka